Avoiding the Battle

This episode explores the importance of engaging with spiritual warfare, the dangers of avoiding it, and how embracing God's power through the Holy Spirit transforms lives. Derek and Jill discuss church hypocrisy, the authority believers have, and practical steps to armor up against spiritual darkness. 

KEY TOPICS 

• The importance of engaging in spiritual warfare 
• The dangers of avoiding spiritual battles Church hypocrisy and lack of spiritual knowledge 
• The authority believers have through the Holy Spirit Practical steps to armor up and fight in the spiritual realm 

SOUND BITES 

• "Ignoring the enemy empowers them" 
• "Trust God and leave Egypt behind" 
• "The journey of faith strengthens us" 

Youtube video link: 

Landing Page: 

Ministry Website:

Facebook Group: 

Embracing Our Full Victory In Christ (book): 

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:22

Welcome to Dominion Over Darkness, where breakthrough is real and freedom is fearless. No theatrics just broad truth. Undeniable power. If you're ready to break chains, step into your identity in Christ and walk in victory, you're in the right place.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Well, welcome back to another episode of Dominion Over Darkness. We're so glad that you're with us here today. Jill, or how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 0:51

I'm good. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Doing good. Before we get into our topic today, we just want to again promote our book, which is called Embracing Our Full Victory in Christ. The book is designated or was written for Christians or non-Christians, honestly, but for those who are not plugging into the Holy Spirit of God. So if you're trapped in darkness, whether it be as a believer in Christ or not, and you need victory, if you've looked in other places and you can't find it, there's pretty good indication. If you've already explored the medical field of things and including the psychological, and you're just not able to get the help that you're looking for, there is a good chance that it might actually, the solution might exist in the spiritual realm. And so, in a Christian sense, the only way that you're really able to tap into that is through the power of the Holy Spirit. And that means embracing Christ, the way that he calls us into, and also then knowing how to follow that relationship that we have access to through through the Holy Spirit. And so that's what this book is about. Yes, it does include deliverance, it does include the counseling techniques that we use in our ministry, which is identity in Christ, but ultimately it is to explain the process and our techniques and a very brief overview of them. The reason why I wrote it is because there were people that were asking me how to train their leaders, pastors, elders, and so forth. And I was like, well, I don't know of any source, just one source where you can get all that information in one place. So either you're gonna have to buy five, six different books and a bunch of different printouts and so forth, or you can get the book. And so the book is, again, not just for people that are mature or elders or leaders, but it is for the new Christian. In fact, I would highly recommend that if you are beginning your faith walk in Christ, this is a great way for you to start off on the right foot rather than having to go down a path and a system and template that currently exists in our churches today that will not bring you into the power and the healing of Christ. Not most of them. Anyways, that's the book. You can get it on Amazon again. Uh, and it's in all different formats. So, but Amazon is the best place to find that. Second thing we just want to touch on really, really quickly, is that we do have a certification program that we're working on that soon will take this knowledge deeper. And so it will develop a community of people that are dedicated to participating in the healing ministry. And so, again, the certification will depend on what you want to learn about. So, if you want to learn about deliverance, then you'll be able to do that, be certified for that. Counseling, you'll do the same thing. And all the different things that we are learning, we will also keep you updated through that program. And at the same point, you will also be part of a community that helps to troubleshoot with one another and to have a dialogue and uh a community of support with one another to really do this spiritual battle well. And so, yeah, just stay tuned though, because that is not available yet. However, we are working on all of that. Um, the platform, the program, and all of that stuff is happening right now. So stay tuned here and we'll keep you up to date on when that is going to be available for everybody. So, well, on that note, what's our topic here for today, Jill?

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Well, it's going to be what happens when we avoid spiritual battles.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Yeah. Yeah. What a um, what a great lead in from what we were just talking about with certification program. This is a topic that, gosh, this is why this is so important. So can't tell you how many times that I've had people that have come back to me that we do counseling with, and they say, Well, I talked to my pastor or elders in my church about spiritual warfare, and they just don't see the point in it. Or, um, or I see I have people that come to us and say constantly that I've gone to my church. I've asked them for help. They don't know how to deal with the situations that I'm going through. How sad is that that we have churches that when people go to them about spiritual issues, that they don't even know how to help them. They don't know how to tell them how to overcome the very thing that they're supposed to be experts on. And so, I mean, that just exposes the hypocrisy that's there if we have churches that don't know how to do spiritual battle or that they've completely disregarded it as being something that doesn't exist anymore today. Then why are you important then? Why are you relevant? I can read a book on my own, and I don't have to, I don't have to give tithes and develop a community and stuff like that. I can just keep the money myself. I can read the Bible on my own. And um, yeah, I don't I don't need the church then, if that's the case. Church is supposed to be something that teaches people how not only to be able to embrace how to come into the salvation of God, but if it's just a magic prayer that you say and then you're in, what do I need anything else for? I don't, really. I mean, unless you use fear as a control tactic, which is what happens a lot today in churches, to keep you um where they want you and to control you. I'm a pastor, so and I am of a church. I'm a lead pastor of a church. That's some of the stuff that we are intentional to not do. It is to teach people, yes, intellectually, how to understand the Bible, how to read the Bible, but also at the same point how to take that intellectual knowledge and move it into your heart so that it has action behind it, so that you're participating in the ministry that Jesus started and that he's called us into. And so it is supposed to have power, it is supposed to be something that we participate in. God's not looking for people to just sit in the stands and cheer on what Jesus did thousands of years ago. He's looking for people to get out onto the playing field, out onto the battlefield, and participate in that battle. And so what happens when people just decide that they don't want to fight the spiritual battles? Whether they, I mean, I've had people before that they said, uh, I don't want to even talk about it because I believe that when I talk about it, I give them more power. That's so ridiculous. I mean, it really, that's so ridiculous. You you so you think that just by avoiding it? I mean, if anybody that's listening to this, how many times have you just avoided a situation and it just went away? If you have kids and you've got multiple kids and you don't deal with that situation, well, fine, it might calm down for that moment, but I guarantee you that that is going to continue to evolve and get worse and worse and worse until you deal with it. Or at in business, especially anybody that's in the business side of things, a good business person, maybe that's the nice way of putting it. So any good business person would absolutely recognize the ridiculousness of that phrase. Maybe if we just avoid it, then it'll go away. Never. That never happens. If there's a situation, if if there's a leak in your boat, just avoid it. Just ignore it. Don't give it any strength or power, because if you do, it's gonna get worse. So here's the deal. If you want to go with that theology, that way of thinking, see where it gets you. Okay. If you want to gamble with your family on that, you're gonna have a hard lesson that you're gonna learn, I promise you. Your church while it gets destroyed, anything, your own life, because it's fear ultimately that that makes us not want to engage in that. We're afraid, and we don't know how to deal with it. And so that's in somebody once said that, and people have have jumped on that bandwagon that that you get. It's the same thing as that if you have the name of a demon that you have control over it. Okay. I've cast out many demons that I never knew their name of, and I didn't need it. That's that is it's not true. It's not true. So, anyways, here's the deal. If you avoid a situation, it's gonna get worse. And so if you avoid it in your family, if you have a situation, let's start off simple. Well, let's start off even with the individual. So if you avoid it with yourself, what's gonna happen is that whatever you're dealing with is going to amplify and it's gonna get worse. And you're not gonna understand what is what your part of contributing to it. So if you're feeding that demonic element, you're not gonna know how. You're not gonna understand how you think or how you operate because you're too afraid of going into the Enneagram side of it. And so you think that that's demonic. So you won't have any understanding of yourself and how you think. And so, therefore, you just simply empower, you do empower the enemy by not having that knowledge because you make it easier for them to manipulate you. And so there's another thing, and that'll make it worse. And if you think that just trying to not think about things or whatever, that it's just going to go away eventually, it's gonna continue to get worse and worse and worse until you get to a place where it'll get bad. It can get to the place, honestly, where where you cross a line that you don't come back from. I've seen people before where they go so deep into whether it be drugs or alcohol or a combination of the two, where they take their life, commit suicide, where they enter into a place of darkness or craziness because it's just too intense for them, or that things get to a place where they start actually moving into needing an exorcism eventually because they have not dealt with it when they could have, but they decided to just let it go. Destruction. You'll be consumed by the darkness. If it is a spiritual thing, and here's the thing, some people be like, Well, I've been dealing with this for a long time, and it never that never happened. So the worst thing is, is if it doesn't get to a point, if it just stays, if it stays in there where you can operate, but it's not going to completely destroy you, then you'll live your whole life miserable with dealing with self-doubt, self-worth. You will be a jealous person to your spouse and never be able to trust people. You will not be able to live in a place of peace, and you will not be able to participate in God's advancement of his kingdom, not the way that you're supposed to. In fact, if you're not careful, and if you do allow for these wounds to stay within you and you're feeding them, then you can actually become an incredible agent for the other side, for the enemy, because now your jealousy things or your insecurities now are getting triggered. And if you start to rise in rank in the church as an elder or other leaders, then fear is going to overwhelm you and meanness, and you're going to start attacking other people that are believers that are infants that don't know any better. But your insecurities are what's going to be the foothold that Satan gets on you. And you're not willing to follow God as he's tapping on your door, knocking on your shoulder, saying, Hey, let's do this together, which is what the book that I wrote talks about. You're called into a journey, and the journey is the journey of love that God transforms us into becoming what we're always meant to be. If you are not willing to follow him as he's calling you into that healing and transformational process, what that's showing, God, is that I'm not interested in having a relationship with you. I just want to get into heaven. And here's the deal: it is my strong belief that that mentality will not get you into heaven. And I don't care how many times that you said the sinner's prayer or whatever that you gave your life to Christ and that you wear a cross on your round your neck or the earrings or whatever, that you're an elder in a church. I don't even care if you're a pastor, honestly, to tell you the truth, you will be used by Satan through those wounds that you have that you're not willing to let God in and heal you. You will become an agent for Satan more than you will for God, and you will not end up in heaven. I'm telling you. I know some people won't agree with me on this. I don't care. Because I'm more interested in your salvation than I am on being your friend. So, and I've seen it before. I see it all the time. All the time. It happens in churches. I would say 90% of the churches that are out there have got this going on out there. And then they wonder, why do we have church splits? Why are churches closing down? Why did COVID have such a big impact on our churches? Because we're self-centered and not willing to follow God in this relationship. And so we want to be comfortable. We operate out of a place of fear, which is that empire mentality that we've been talking about, and we end up destroying ourselves, we destroy our family, we destroy our churches. And when I say family, what you'll find is your kids won't go to church because they see the hypocrisy. They see your anger and your bitterness and your meanness to other people. You will expect, you'll talk about how legalism is not part of the gospel and that it's all about grace, but yet you will expect legalistic things from people. You will demand their loyalty without teaching them how to surrender to the power of the Holy Spirit. You will not be patient that are struggling, people with people that are struggling with drug addiction or pornography or whatever things that are can take a while, can be really hard for people to overcome. You will you'll forget about your own struggles and you'll hide them, and you will have insecurities that are dwelling within you, and you'll understand your own hypocrisy deep down that will haunt you. And again, that you will be overwhelmed with fear that people might find out uh what you're dealing with. Um, yeah. And so that's that's if that's what you want, then avoid the battle. There is no spiritual battle, and just avoid it. It'll consume you, the darkness will consume you. Even though you can say, Well, I've been a pastor for 35 years and I haven't dealt with any of that stuff. Can you imagine what you could do if you actually did embrace God's spirit then? If you've done a lot of really good things. Nobody's perfect. But the key is that when the ch when the church chooses to not follow God and trust him in his call to embrace not only that he died for us, not just to get forgiveness of sin and so to get into heaven, but for us to receive the Holy Spirit because we've been forgiven of sin, and his presence can now dwell within us, transform us, heal us, and bring us into continuing what Jesus started when he came here, and that is healing the sick and meeting the poor and providing for them and being light in this world and showing people who God is through our own lives and transformation. We want to change our kids' lives, we want to make an impact on our family, then let them watch us be transformed by the Holy Spirit, by the power of God's presence and his word. If you're just doing the word of God and you just are being uh an expert on his word, then you you're you are graduating or you are perfecting your own little Pharisee within yourself. Congratulations. And all I know is that you read the Bible truly, the whole thing, especially in the New Testament. If you're one of those only New Testament guys or gals, you're foolish, first of all. If that's the only thing that you read, because it's all important. But that's what the New Testament tells us the Pharisees and those people that were the intellectuals of that day were Jesus' greatest enemies at that period. So again, everything I'm talking about, what has to change is we have to we have to the courage as Christians to number one, it's it's ironic to me that you that that people they they claim to be these intellectuals, and yet at the same point then they write off, you know, the mystical, the healing and the the power, but yet they're the you gotta be you gotta follow God's word, you gotta you have to follow it. But if you're not, you're disobedient and you're a sinner and you're gonna be cast off into hell. What about you, genius? What about you who does not follow God when it comes to healing or restoration or transformation or the Holy Spirit and following the Holy Spirit? Well, dispensationalism, ridiculous. Those things just don't happen anymore. Good luck when you stand before God and use that intellectual argument. You're gonna need all the help you can get because you're not going to be in a good situation. He does not change. He doesn't change, he doesn't it's Malachi, he doesn't change so that we aren't destroyed. He is the same, and uh he has continued to reveal what his salvation is through Christ, and the ultimate revelation of it is that Jesus says, now go and share with everyone, go and make disciples of all the nations and share with them everything that I've taught you. Baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, not just the Father and the Son. And that means be immersed by all of that, of everything that God has taught us. And that includes the healing and the spiritual warfare.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Well, I feel like there's so many different reasons why people don't want to acknowledge the spiritual realm or engage with it. And that could be a number of things. I think some people are scared of it. I think some people are kind of like out of sight, out of mind mentality. And maybe they weren't taught that. Maybe the church, you know, like what you were talking about. And I think that there's a whole could be a whole number of reasons why the church doesn't teach it either. But and I think that that's part of the problem with the American church. There's a lot of things that are missing in it. And as you were talking, I was just thinking about my own journey when I first became, I would call it a born-again Christian. And I feel like I was just kind of like playing church. I was going to church, but I wasn't like I wasn't being taught, and I'm not blaming anybody, this is just the way that it was. I wasn't being taught what it meant to have my identity in Christ or what it meant really to be a disciple of Christ. And I had a woman that was a mentor to me that she she was the really the reason why I became a born-again Christian. And she did a fantastic job of teaching me the Bible, but then life just happens, and then you kind of go your separate ways and whatnot. I didn't really know what it meant to be a follower of Christ until I don't know, it's been within the last several years. And I didn't know any better in some regard. And I've been in BSF for going on, I honestly don't know, 10 plus years on and off. So that helped me. But what I think about when you're like when you talk about these people that and I've I wonder that too, the people that say that they're Christians, which sometimes I don't even like using that term anymore because I feel like it's just kind of like a title, maybe, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're following Christ.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

So it can actually actually can almost imply a hypocritical believer, a believer that really isn't. It can actually have a negative connotation to it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

And they may or may not know it, which I think is another dangerous thing because you can go to church and you can play the part, but what is your heart doing? And I think that you always talk about, and the obviously Jesus says this in the Bible, you know people by their fruit. And I've started paying more attention to that in people's lives, and you can tell people that, and I mean, we all are going to still sin. Like I'm not saying when you are really following Christ that you're doing everything. Everything right, and you're perfect because that's not going to happen. But you can just pay attention to the way that they're living their lives or what they're talking about or any of those things. And the Bible also talks about that God knows our hearts. And so that's what He sees. And we can look real good and play the part on the outside, but God is the one that sees the heart. And so that's another thing that I've really tried to remember is to not judge people because I don't know. And some people that are even like playing the part really well, I don't know what their heart is. I I mean, I just don't. Only God knows that. But I do think that there are going to be a lot of people that are surprised whenever that judgment day comes, however, that works, kind of like the Pharisees. They did all the things that they thought they were supposed to do. I've really I start looking like um at people thinking, do I see Jesus in them? Is that how Jesus would interact in that situation? And some very well-meaning people that I think are doing their best and actually trying to follow Christ. Sometimes I wonder, is their behavior representing Christ to other people? Like, I don't know. Again, not my I can't judge that, but I feel like there's just such a wide variety of reasons why people decide to either ignore the spiritual realm, not engage in the battle. And I mean, let's be honest, it is not fun. But like you said, I've some things that have I've gone through recently that have actually been going on for a few years. I didn't recognize that it was the enemy stirring the pot. And so I was thinking for the longest time, just conflict and stuff like that with other people was more about that relationship when I think that had part of it to do with well, I think that had something to do with it, but not all of it. And now that I have the maybe the distance and more discernment and wisdom, I can look back on that and see the enemy clearly wreaking havoc. And I didn't know. And when you don't know, then you can't do anything about it. And you just like what you were talking about, you still live in that conflict. But now I think that's the importance of recognizing A, that we do have an enemy, and he is actively walking around like a roaring lion looking for people to devour. The Bible tells us that. And knowing that should help us to be more aware. And then when you know that you have the authority in Christ because you are a believer and Jesus gave you that authority, then you can start engaging and blocking the enemy. And you may there may be a number of things that you need to do in order to like get rid of it. But you have the weapons and the authority to defeat him. But I don't think a lot of Christians understand that or want to know that. And like that out of sight, out of mind, I mean, yeah, it sounds kind of good. I mean, sometimes I even wish that because it's like life was a lot more easy and maybe not as chaotic before I knew all of this. But then, like you remind me, you're like, but was it was it really? And the answer is no. But I will say I think that there are different levels that people, some people may go their whole lives and they don't really encounter spiritual warfare on a big scale just because for whatever reason. And then there's other people like us that work in the ministry, where I've just come to realize like, not only did I stir up the hornet's nest, I'm like inside of the hornet's nest, walking around, stirring up all the hornets. And that's what I that's what God has called me to do. He's in some form or fashion. And so I think that they're that should maybe be encouraging to some people. Like, you may not deal with intense spiritual warfare, because that may not be your calling, and other people may be called into it. But I think one of the things that you have really drilled in my head is to not be afraid of it because we have the authority over it. It's not more powerful than God. And since we are children of God, we have that authority. And so when we understand that and we know how to use it, then kind of stuff shouldn't be causing any fear. It can be annoying, and I can get really irritated at it, but I'm not afraid of it like I used to be.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that's the thing. So that's what the enemy wants us to believe is that life was easier before you ended up going down this path. What it was is that you you were unaware, you were blind and numb to it, but you also had no idea and were lost and consumed by darkness, anxieties, fears, paranoia, insecurity, and all kinds of things that just constantly were plaguing you. And that's part of the reason why people reach out to a ministry like us, is because things got so bad that they were desperate. And people forget that a lot of times. Once things actually start getting better, then they're like, we don't like discomfort, but that's the place where God actually is, and that's part of what sin is. I just want to be comfortable. I just want to be bothered by other people or situations or whatever the case is. But what if all of those situations and the the challenges that you face are the very places where God gives him the opportunity to show up to reveal how real he is? We want everything. I want to be comfortable and yet I want to see the miracles. I want to see God, I want to see his presence, but I don't want to go out into the wilderness, kind of a thing. And it's it's not possible. It's not possible because part of that is that that's arrogance, that pride is what keeps us separated from him. The trust, the faith is something where we have to let go. We're so we're so accustomed to to wanting control of things that that we don't want to let go. We got to leave Egypt. Well, where are we going? We're going out into the desert. The desert? Are you kidding me? That's that's where like all the demons are out there in the desert. Here it's comfortable, but you're a slave. So but I got a better chance of living here as a slave as opposed to going out in the desert. Maybe. But if God's calling you out there, do you trust him?

unknown 29:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

Do you trust him that his call on your life is for a purpose and for a reason? And that line that I use it so often, and I'm sure I didn't come up with it, but it's something that has just been in my head is God doesn't pull us out of Egypt to leave us to die in the wilderness. He's taken us somewhere. Now, can people die out in the wilderness? For sure. But that's because they won't let go.

unknown 30:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

They want to get into heaven, but they don't want to follow God. And so they get consumed by the demons are absolutely still in Egypt. In fact, they're just more real. But they they cloak themselves as being good. It's comfort. It's or you, but but you have protection, but you have an army that's around you, but you're a slave to their projects and everything that's that's happening. You work seven days a week and you're oppressed, and they just basically killed all of your male children recently, also to try and have population control over your people. Well, but at least we're safe. At least we're still alive. If that's what you want, then that's what you get. God gives us free will. But it's in those places that often that that that's where God reveals himself to us. And yeah, that's where the church is a lot of times. They just want, I just want, I just want the tradition. I just want to know that we've got three songs, we've got a 20-minute sermon, we've got a bunch of announcements, we got ridiculous jokes that we just laugh and stuff, and then everybody's out, so they can be gone in an hour and back to their own lives. But then we complain because we're still struggling, and my son or my daughter and me or whatever anxieties and fears and bullying, and there's all kinds of challenges that are still there, but we're doing it on our own. Where is God in the midst of all of this? And where is God in COVID? And where is God in the wars, and where is God in all these deaths? It's a broken world. Okay, that's not gonna change. We have to decide whether we're gonna go through it with him or alone. And that's it. That it's it is that simple. And so if you we accept Christ and we think that we get God's presence, like that's it, that's the whole thing, it's over. I still go to church and I pray when I can. I read my Bible when I can, which is like never. Or some people they still they maybe they do read a lot and they pray a lot, but they still are plagued with insecurities. A lot of them, they don't even know if they're going to heaven, they don't even have an assurance of salvation. I don't even know. Uh at the end of their life, they they are plagued with fear. And that's a great indication that you don't have the relationship with God. Because if you have that relationship, you know exactly where you're going. Because here's the alternative. When we do accept that, that invitation from Him, His presence comes in and He starts to open doors. And yeah, sometimes the things that He opens were like, oh, I didn't know that was there. But and some of it's shameful, some of it is painful, some of it is fearful, some of it is terrifying, some of it we tried to forget. But all of these things God is bringing up, not to overwhelm us by these things, he brings them up as is needed in the layers that's needed, but to free us from them and to teach us how to do it with him. And so he'll he'll bring, I mean, so I know this probably would not work today, but my dad told me a story about an uncle that basically brought him in when he was younger. He was only a real father figure that he had. And it was it was a lot rougher back then. There was still bullying and stuff, but he got he was getting bullied by some kids after school, and he got beat up pretty good, and he got home. And again, keep in mind this is a whole different era of time. But his uncle said to me, He said, What happened to you? And he goes, I got jumped by like whatever it was, five or six kids. And he goes, Where? And so he told him, and so he grabbed my dad and he walked with him back to where that place was. He came up to the kids, he said, I understand that you guys want to fight and uh you want to pick on people. And so he said, Five of them, you're gonna stand here. And he grabbed a hold of them and he threw one at a time them at my dad, and he said, Now fight. If you're gonna do it, fight fair at least. My dad said he was more afraid of his uncle than he was of these kids, but still, this is where God comes in with us, and he's like, All right, let's fight this together. I'm gonna teach you how to win, though, against these things, so that they aren't overwhelming you. The power of all of them against one. I'm gonna teach you how to do it with me, and I'm more powerful than all of them, but I'm gonna teach you how to tap into my power. And that's spiritual warfare. That's spiritual warfare. That's what we were meant to be. And that's the greatest part of the salvation that God gives us is relationship, the intimate relationship. If we aren't interested in that, then we aren't interested in God. We're not interested in Christ, and we're not interested in his salvation. It's that simple. It really is. And so what's awesome is that we we at first, yes, it's like, gosh, this is so hard, but what's harder is when we're being bullied every day by those demonic elements that continue to torment us. And but we just, we just, I'd just rather be comfortable. And that's the church today. You know, we don't, we and as we walk with God, our eyes get opened, our ears start to hear differently, we start to see things, and the world that we thought was perfect or so good, um, we start to realize that it's a lot more broken than what we had originally uh and that that can be sad. I mean, there's a moment of sadness that goes to that. It's just not what I thought. But even with that, you've got people on one side with like things like Christmas, where it's like Christmas is so good, and oh, it's just my favorite time of the year and everything, and really doesn't have much to do with Jesus, especially at least in America, with all the consumerism and stuff. But then on the other side, you've got these hyper-Christians that they think that they're honoring God more by either not participating in Christmas or just come unplugging or like bashing everything about it. Both of those are wrong. I mean, both of them are completely dumping just all the gifts and everything, just completely as a Christian, just neglecting the fact that Christ is pretty much ignored for the most part in Christmas today. I mean, let's face it, who what do people really, really like? They like the presence, they like the family time, the food and the and the gifts and the fellowship is mostly what people like. I mean, there's you go to church, there are a handful of people out there that they enjoy going to a Christmas service, but most, I know me, when I was growing up, that was the part that we had to kind of push through. Because then afterwards, we either we went to dinner early, a nice dinner with family. That was nice. We had to go through a service, which ultimately really didn't have much power behind it. It was the same old stuff that you saw every single year for the most part. You know the story, you're bored by it for the most part. There's some sometimes some cool things, maybe a tear and emotional or whatever, but then it's like this. All right, finally let's get home and let's get the presents. I want to get the presents. That's what the exciting part about Christmas is. It isn't the service and it isn't Jesus. It's the presence and the the atmosphere and the culture and the music and the lights and the food, again, the the all of that stuff, the candy canes and the that's what we like. And so when we're like, well, that's not what it's about, it's about something so much bigger, so much more, so much more powerful. I mean, in there is truth that that something big happened in that moment. And we're not meant to, as Christians, to just abandon it because it seems so overwhelming. The blindness is so deep in our culture. We're to be light in this world. We're not meant to just pick up our toys and go home and go pout, go be hermits or unplug from the world. We're meant to stick in there and to be people that are light within this world in love, not in anger, not in hate, not in judgment. And so the only way that we do that, where we can operate not out of a place of fear, but out of a place of love, is if we tap into the power of the Holy Spirit. And the way that we learn how to have that kind of confidence and courage is by letting the Holy Spirit lead us through the wounds and the traumas that we have in our own life. And they are overwhelming. And they do feel like giants. That's exactly what happened in the Exodus. God's preparing for us to come into the promised land, a covenant where he says, I promise that I will redeem you, I will bring you into covenant, and I'll give you the land, the inheritance that we're supposed to have, which is ultimately it's that relationship, that peace with God, which if we have peace with God, then we are going to have peace within our lives. Ultimately. But Jesus says that the peace that I give is not, I don't give like the world gives. The peace that Jesus gives is from within us. He says, you won't see the kingdom of God out here. It's not something you can point at because the kingdom of God dwells within us. It's the power of the Holy Spirit. We learn how to tap into the Holy Spirit and the peace that God gives us. But it's a journey. And if we're not willing to go on that journey, we're not going to get it. And ultimately, if we're not willing to go on the journey, we really never were willing to get out of Egypt. So we're really not gods. We still belong to the world. We got a facade that looks real nice, maybe, but we're not one of his own. And so if our churches want to have the power that they were always meant to have, they got to remember this stuff and they got to be willing to learn this stuff. That's part of the reason why the certification is so important to me. I feel that is something that God has put on my heart in a big, big, big, big way to be able to teach people how to do this stuff because we can make such a big impact on this world. Can you imagine what Christians would be like if they really truly if churches were committed to teaching people how to tap into the power of God's presence? I mean, what kind of what kind of world would we live in? It'd be way different. I mean, I guarantee you you're still gonna have people that are rejecting it and that are not interested, but still, I mean, just every single day I hear more stories about people that are miraculously being healed and abused pretty, pretty hardcore. I mean, the worst of the worst, we hear it in this ministry. There's some of the things that even though this is a podcast, I I don't even know that I'd I want to share some of the depths of the darkness that that people have gone through. Horrifying. It is horrifying, but yet watch God heal them of it. And they can they get in not only to a place of peace themselves, but they have this incredible passion to minister to other people, not in hate or insecurities or anger or bitterness, but in love, really truly love and power. And they face some incredible odds, and yet at the same point, they still navigate it just beautifully. Again, nobody's perfect, but still they really do come into the salvation of God and they glorify him the way we were always meant to. That's that's what we're called into. So if we avoid the battle, we avoid the relationship. If we avoid the relationship, it's a faith without power. I mean, you might have some cool stories here and there. I had a person recently that had some sort of chemical burn on their hand, and uh it was pretty bad. It was really bad. And so she prayed over herself, and she's newer to the this relationship, but she's recognized that she's got some pretty powerful gifts. And she just uh shared with us that her hand is from a pretty severe burn within a couple of days, has gotten to be 95% healed. Wow, she prayed over herself for that. Her son watched it happen, he's like five or six years old, and he's blown away by he's like, What happened? It's like God answered prayer, he healed me. I mean, when people say, I wish God did that today, he does. Yeah, he does. Well, why isn't he doing it with me? He calls us all into a journey of faith. If you have the courage and the faith in Christ to walk with him, well, I those demons are a little scary for me. Well, then you stay alone. Yeah, they're terrifying apart from God. Apart from God, but if you stay apart from God, you're dealing with them on your own. Yeah, they are terrifying. They're gonna terrify you and they're gonna have their way with you. But I don't say that for fear, I say it's just it's a fact. I mean, you try to battle that on your own, you're not gonna win. Promise you, you're not gonna win, and it will destroy everyone around you. And if it's a generational issue, it'll get passed to your kids, and same thing will happen with them, and it'll get can get worse if they continue to feed what uh it is that's at work within them. Stuff is essential. If we're Christians, it is essential for us to embrace this. If we don't embrace this, it is an incredible rejection of the salvation of God. And so, but it doesn't have to be, I think, and I know what you were saying is some people they they reject it for a lot of different reasons. Some of the reasons why people reject it is one that just the spiritual side of it just freaks them out. Some people they've seen with some very theatrical ways of when they hear like spiritual warfare, they just immediately go to exorcism. And so they think about the movies. Or they think about more theatrical approaches to spiritual warfare where they're They see people flopping around on the ground, or they're running around their churches and saying that that's the Holy Spirit that's in them. The Holy Spirit you can't control, but the Holy Spirit is also not a spirit of chaos or even ridiculous foolishness. It is awesome, a life-giving, creating spirit of God that is in order, but also powerful, and he'll do amazing things. It doesn't have to be theatrical. And not everybody that that has the Holy Spirit has to speak in tongues. I don't care how I'll argue with anybody that that says that that's the case. Now, are people are there people that still speak in tongues? Yeah, absolutely. It's one of the gifts that God gives. I don't think it's as necessary as it was back in the first generation after Christ was resurrected, but it's still a gift. And I do believe that He still does give that out. And it does have power and it is a good thing. And I have spoken in tongues before, but I don't, it's not a regular thing for me. It's not something that I use in spiritual warfare, and it is not something that is a validation of our salvation. I don't agree with any of those thoughts at all. But people are sometimes freaked out by the denominations or the places that do require that. And I do agree that some people, I think they do fake it because they want to be a part of that culture, that community, and they want to be brought in, and so they do fake it. And so it seems ingenuine and it's ridiculous. And if there's people that really don't know God, but they're just, it's a fake kind of a thing, that gives a bad name where people are like, well, I don't want to have anything to do with that. And if that's spiritual warfare, then I don't want to be fake. I don't want to, I don't want to be deceived. You don't have to be deceived. In fact, it will always be like you said, the fruit will be genuine. It's not fake. It's not a fake healing, it's a real healing. It will endure, it will overcome darkness, it will overcome the things that we that we are battling in this world. And some of them are faster than others, but regardless, it's a relationship. And that's that's where we find it, is in the spiritual warfare side of things. That's where that is not only illuminated, exposed, but also grown and matured and developed. And so it's an amazing, amazing thing. And that's our ministry is is dedicated to a non-theatrical approach to spiritual warfare. So can things still get a little weird? Sure. Sure. There's definitely, I mean, a deliverance in itself is that we're listening for the demonic to speak to us. If you've watched what our our deliverance process is, that's different. I'm sure that people are not used to that. And it's done in a safe way, brought into a box that is empowered by the Holy Spirit. It's not dangerous, it's not reckless, it's done very, very responsibly. But um yeah, we have to have faith in God. That's who our power is. And all the stuff that we had talked about from the very beginning. If you've been with us from the very beginning, I've given structures from foundational things that our power comes not from ourself, but from God, understanding the armor of God, understanding how Paul talks about that that we have to understand where the uh battle is fought and won. And it's not in the flesh, it's in the spiritual realm. So we need to learn how to fight the spiritual realm and what that whole armor of God even is. So many people I hear them talk about, I need to armor up, I need to put on the armor of God. And my my question is always to them how do you do that? And most people, they don't even know what the armor is. I mean, they could maybe pick out a couple, but most of them don't remember what it is, even though they know they should be putting on the armor of God every day, the whole armor. They don't even know what it is, let alone putting it on. So, how do you put on the belt of truth? How do you do that? That's what we should be teaching people. That's what people need to be learning in churches. How do you put on the belt of truth? How do you wear the breastplate of righteousness? How do you put on the shoes that make us ready that are the gospel of peace? How do you take up the shield of faith? How do you receive the helmet of salvation, the helmet of deliverance? Those things, how do you do that? How do you put that stuff on? How do you armor up? And uh if we did, number one, we would have less Christians being so arrogant, prideful, and mean. They'd be loving, they would be compassionate and powerful. Wow, powerful. And anybody can come into it. I don't care how old you are or young you are, anybody, if you have the faith, you have access to the power then also. And so but it's a journey, and humility is very important, and patience and love and faith. Those are all extremely important. And the journey is what strengthens those things, helps to purge the brokenness from us. So yeah. So here's the here's the answer is again coming back to it. So what happens when we avoid the spiritual warfare? Destruction. Destruction of ourselves, of our family, of the church, and then community, culture, world. And that's why we have the end of the world that happens is we have a world that also has a church that's meant to be light in it. But just like Israel chose not to embrace the things of God, the church has also done the same thing. There are churches out there that definitely do embrace what we're talking about, but they're the minority. And our effort here is to try and hopefully change some of that. And I can only do as much as God empowers us to do and the fruitfulness that we have. And so those people that are part of this podcast that you're watching it, God has obviously led you here for a reason. And I just pray that you would continue the journey and that you would armor up, that you'd learn how to equip yourself for this battle. Because this is a battle that we do win. We do win, and we definitely have way more power than we even need. Just gotta learn how to plug into it. And uh it is a m to watch the things that God does, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 50:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

I mean, and when you first learn it, you learn it for yourself, how it applies to you, because it becomes intimate. It becomes something that you when somebody says that stuff's not real, and you're like, Who are you to tell me what's real and what's not? You don't you don't even know who I am or where I've come from or anything like that. And they speak from an arrogant, condescending intellectual background. You're like, get out of here. Get out of here, get away from me, just go. But a person doesn't have that, it's like, oh, really? Am I I'm being foolish? I must be being foolish. I yeah, this is probably, and they just listen to it. There are arguments, intellectual arguments, but it starts with ourselves. And once you have that, you see other people where they are, and you know you can help. You can help, but you also know that you need God to be part of it in order for it to truly be fruitful. And so you carefully walk with God, walk with them, and you let him lead you to the places that he wants you to go and say and do, and all of that, and he does get the glory for it. And the more that we learn how to use it, the more that we're given. And it's amazing. It's one of the most awesome, it is the most awesome call that anybody can have. And that's where we find our purpose, that's why where we find our peace, that's where we find life. And when a person is on that path, when they get to the even, it doesn't matter, end of life and middle of life, you don't fear death anymore because you know if my time has come, it's come. If you get diagnosed with cancer or whatever, then the point is that if that's my time, then I what I would pray more than anything is God will number one, make it hopefully that it's not very painful for me. That's one thing, uh, make it quick, but also help me to utilize the time that I have left here to to be a light in this world and to glorify you through it. And he will. I know he will. Seen him do it time and time and time again. I had a guy that he he struggled with cancer. It was a long journey. When I first met him, he was somebody who was a he was a confessing Christian, but he didn't have the relationship. And by the time he he actually had said to me at one point, he said this, not me. He said, I'm honestly glad that I got this cancer, which is really unfortunate because he actually got it from some sort of a needle injection. It was uh something that a hospital actually, it was a mistake on their part. And um I gave him that. I I don't understand all the details, but that's I know what he told me at least. And eventually he did pass, but he's he said to me, He said, If I didn't, if I didn't have that, it wouldn't have driven me to you and your ministry, and and I in this place, I learned how to have that relationship with God. And at the end of his life, I remember last couple of weeks. I remember him, I mean, he was he was he should have been in a lot of pain. And he said to me, looked me right in the face, and he said, I got no pain. And he wasn't even taking any medication or anything like that. He said, I haven't been taking the medication. He said, I'm in no pain, I'm ready to go. That's that's the way it should be. Because fear has no grip on us, death has no grip on us. Then we can truly live in the light and the life and the power of God because we know we're not alone.

SPEAKER_00 54:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

And so, yeah. All right, well, on that note, we'll end there. We're so glad that you are with us here today, and uh, we hope we see you again next week. So have a good week and God bless. Bye, everyone.